Dr. Creamer,
Originally Posted by Samuel M. Frost
Meet Sam Frost. This guy isn't "president" of anything. The so-called "Reign of Christ Ministries" is just him and another guy with a website. Heck, if all it took to declare one's self a "president" is a website; I'd be the head of the website U.N. by nowBut joking aside, Frost is not an honest-broker in these discussions. One of his pals is Joel McDurmon; the very guy who wrote the article in question. Further, the other guy who runs the website for Frost is Jason Bradfield. Bradfield had this to say about Criswell College:
The irony is that Frost was a leader within the "hyperpret" movement for about 15 years and all that time Frost's supposedly "orthodox" seminary never said a peep about it publicly and even allowed him to work behind the scenes, helping develop student materials for the seminary, yet here is Frost's pals acting like they are all outraged at Criswell??? Further, Frost's seminary pal/president even recently enrolled a known "hyperpret"; Larry Siegle into a "ministers" program. Not to merely audit it, but to obtain a minister's degree. To whom will he minister with the blessings of this supposed "orthodox" seminary?? And lastly, Frost to this day goes around telling people he is/was a "pastor" though he was only ever a self-ordained leader of a group of "hyperprets" -- Frost doesn't state that though. He claims that because he was certified through the state of Florida, that that makes him a Christian pastor, no matter what he was teaching. Really?"Criswell will get no “thank you” from me. How does a college put together a roundtable with men of that caliber and then invite someone they knew nothing about? Further, Criswell was informed by a number of men about the situation prior to the event taking place. Yet, apparently, they continued on with the show. They would have received a “thank you” from me had they acknowledged their goof up and told Preston to stay home…if, in fact, it was a “goof up.” Entirely irresponsible." -- Jason Bradfield, dogging Criswell College
So anyhow, be careful with the kudos from men like Frost, McDurmon and such -- they are only out to promote themselves, no matter how deceptively.
Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Bamboozling Criswell College
Tuesday, October 16, 2012
The UnPreterist: An Email to PaulT Gates
Paul, a faculty from Criswell College debunks Jason Bradfield's theory that they only took Don Preston to task because they were contacted by men like Joel McDurmon. See the full statement on CARM here: http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?119968-Bamboozling-Criswell-College&s=21c69f7e2726960b49525f3cc326a86e&p=3506389&viewfull=1#post3506389 but he says:
"Criswell has always encouraged familiarity with all views while defending “the right one.” In this case, we invited not only three distinct premillennialists (a classical dispensationalist, a progressive dispensationalist, and a historic premillennialist), but also a postmillennialist, an amillennialist, and a preterist. Two things ought to be considered in light of that article.First, Criswell College is openly opposed to preterism (not the tense, but the eschatological movement among theologians) of any kind. We are a confessionally premillennial college and graduate school. If preterism wants a safe haven, it will have to look elsewhere."
Note that they are against ANY KIND OF PRETERISM. They were never going to allow Preston to get away with anything even if they weren't contacted. They aren't like Kenneth Talbot, who really DID coddle "hyperpreterism" for over 15 years as he never publicly addressed that his star pupil, Sam Frost was a main leader within the movement and Talbot was allowing Frost to develop student materials for his seminary, AND Talbot eventually enrolled Larry Siegle into his seminary's MINISTERS program with intent to confer on him a title of "minister".Again Paul, continue you hating me all you want, but you are on the wrong side.
Tuesday, October 2, 2012
CARM: Why the anti-pret battle is lost
Notice something missing from Sam's statements??? SOURCE LINKS, evidence of what he says. Sam is a good speaker no doubt, but Romans 16:17-18 tells us about these kinds of people; people who make it sound like they are having civil discussions with you because they "smooth talk" by reminding you how "way back" you and they might go. Well, how come how "way back" Sam and I go is then instead presented as "obsessing" instead of a positive? It is because I DO and WILL bring the source links to show that what Sam is saying is not true.EXAMPLE:
He claims two elders were called in to... what give more legitimacy to his ordination?? But he neglects to tell the readers that those same elders have since DEFROCKED him and when they defrocked him, Sam claimed they never had anything to do with his ordination in the first place. Which is it???? Which Sam do we believe. See the SOURCE LINK yourself and the exchange between Sam and the "elders" who defrocked him.
PLAYING THE VICTIM
Sam is trying to play the victim here, acting like he just happen to register a new account here at CARM, briefly after his P.R. man Jason Bradfield was banned for flagrant violations of the rules. And which thread does Sam just happen to comment on first? MINE. Who is "harassing" whom? He comments on my thread talking about "anti-prets" and he thinks there will be no interaction from me simply because he doesn't use my name? Really?
Further, no one said Sam was calling my house. See how he switched that on the reader? It was clearly Jason, and to that Sam doesn't really speak; instead he makes it look like Jason was being harassed. I never called Jason's house asking for his wife by name as Jason has mine. I never called Jason's boss as Jason has done mine. I never set up a fake email account using Jason's name as the sender as Jason has done mine. Who then in the REAL attackers??? I've said nothing "slamming" or attacking of Sam Frost. I never say things here that he "has no clue" -- that is attacking. I merely have stated VERIFIABLE FACTS, with source links.
COUNTER-CULT
Any counter-cult ministry is going to address the players in a cult. You don't address Mormonism and not talk about Joseph Smith jr, Orson Pratt, and others. So, of course Sam and his associates will be addressed when we discuss...let's call it the "Whitefieldian Cult" (at least here on CARM). The Whitefieldian Cult is throughly a "preterist cult" -- not in the sense that "full or hyper preterism" might be considered a cult, since it has no clear leadership, but in the sense that a central figure is at the heart of the Whitefieldian Cult and does admit to orchestrating much that goes on under his purview. This is no conspiracy, as the leader of the cult has said point blank:
Anyone part of the Whitefieldian Cult are part of his "plan", his "better strategy". There is a reason Jason Bradfield admins so much of the Whitefieldian websites."I am good at what I do, both in preaching and in apologetics, and even better in debating. But I am not so good that I will change them. You are trying to engage about 100 to 400 people. I have a better strategy, I am going to engage every Reformed and Evangelical Pastor in this country as to what Hyperpreterism is and what they need to understand. That part of my plan is almost over. What I do next? Let’s wait and see." -- source
CONCLUSION
Sam tries to make it sound like he should be considered a legitimate "pastor" because he did the work of a "pastor". Should ex-Mormon elders be considered legitimate Christian pastors after they leave that cult? Worse yet, would it be right for that ex-Mormon elder to apparently hide the FACT that he was only ever a Mormon elder and never a Christian pastor, as Sam does with his "hyper pret pastorate"?
Lastly, Jason is the one that referred to his burning his "hyper pret" books as akin to destroying books on "magic arts". It was Jason that referenced Acts 19:19-20.
The ummmm... inconsistencies/hypocrisies of Frost's statements can't bear the light of DOCUMENTED, VERIFIABLE FACTS.
More later -- I'm glad Frost is here, and if the mods permit, I will interact with Frost directly in front of witnesses so that the plain truth will be clear for all to see. I will not imply Frost "doesn't have a clue" -- as a matter of fact, I will credit to Frost, a Rom 16:17-18 cleverness in everything he does, including coming here, registering shortly after his right-hand man was banned, and then commenting on MY thread that is directly addressing the movement of which he is apart, and then slyly acting like he is being "slammed". That is as clever as any politician could be. Try to turn the tables indeed.P.S. After having these folks call the church I was attending, I'll never publicly reveal to these folks anything about my fellowship life; let alone the fact they call my family and work. Pitiful.
Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Cyber Stalker Alert!!!! Roderick Edwards « What Color is the Sky in Their World?
Roderick is stalking folks once again but this time he’s gone too far. As I stated on this podcast the only way to stop these types of individuals is to report them to their local authorities. This was done this morning.
Edwards has a lengthy history of such anti-social behavior and as recently as this week has stalked and spammed my friends at Reign of Christ and Michael Loomis. Prior to that he stalked and spammed Dee Dee Warren as well as many others.
If you’ve been stalked by Edwards or if you know of anyone who has been a victim of Edwards, please sign the comments section of this blog so the authorities can see how messed up this weirdo really is.
A Little Cheese With Your Whine?
The primary content of last night’s program was a cyber-stalker by the name of Roderick Edwards. This individual continually ignores requests by both Phil and me to simply leave us alone. We’ve both told him in very plain English to simply, “LEAVE US ALONE!!!”
We’ve even threatened legal action.
Yet he continues to ignore our requests. He even contacts people we associate with to warn them about us. Really? Yes. This individual should be ignored at all costs. But by all means…If he refuses to leave you alone…Expose him.
Here is some of his most recent “PUBLIC” information.
Monday, September 17, 2012
Pitfalls of a Counter-Cult Ministry | The Kingdom Come
The UnPreterist: Pitfalls of a Counter-Cult Ministry
First, what is a counter-cult ministry? A counter-cult ministry is an effort by one or more people to expose and address a cultic group. A cultic group is defined not merely by something extreme such as an individual leader controlling followers but by any abnormal devotion to one or more leaders that often results in the followers behaving unethically or even illegally in support of the leader(s). And the leader(s) need not even ask the followers to behave in this way, however the leader(s) often will turn a blind eye to the actions of their followers.DEFINING A CULT
As stated, a cult is not merely an individual leader controlling followers. A cult need not even be religious in nature, although that is perhaps the easiest vehicle to use to get followers to be that devoted. Also, just because followers are very devoted to leadership doesn't make it a cult. Obviously, religions in general call for the express devotion of its adherents, if not to its founders and leaders at least to its principles and teachings. The kind of cult we're talking about is the kind of group that causes its followers to manifest unethical and often illegal behavior in support of the leadership. It is an almost, "protect the leadership at all costs" mentality. Often, no matter how much documentation and evidence is brought to bear that the leadership is corrupt, the followers will still remain devoted and sometimes even become more entrenched. We see this with some political parties, unions, and even yes religious leaders.
BULLY TACTICS
Cultists of this sort will often engage in bully tactics to silence critics. They will threaten their critics or use social conformance to try to shut them up. If that fails they will then begin justifying their unethical behavior, claiming the critic deserves it. They may even become so deluded in their devotion to the cultic leaders, that they project onto the critics, things they as the cultist are ACTUALLY doing.
EXAMPLE
I recently experienced this with a fellow so devoted to his cult leaders that he called my house, somehow used my wife's name on the recorder though her name should not be known to this fellow and is not said anywhere on the recorder. Further, this fellow followed me onto of all places, Christian chat forums simply to try to bully me into silence and he broke the rules of the forum so terribly that he was banned. He even said he hoped he'd be banned. As a side-effect of being in a cult, this fellow thought he was above respecting the community where he was interacting. But it gets worse. This fellow someone how obtained my place of work and called there attempting to get me fired. He has posted my city and state location on the Internet, in hopes that someone does violence to me and my family. He has made a fake email account using my name as the sender name. He has stolen images from my supposedly private Facebook page (yes, I know, nothing is really private on the Internet). My point is, this is the kind of psychotic, stalker behavior of a cultist.
A couple of things here --
- I know this fellow. I have opposed him and his cult leaders by name.
- I don't want to report this fellow to the police/FBI because I try to follow 1 Cor 6:5-7.
My point is, though this fellow is causing me some hardship, I as a Christian want to think the better of him. I want to hope that he will someday see what he is doing is cultic. Call it naive if you want, but this is how I have operated when cultists in the past have attacked me. Have I had to report some of them to authorities? Yes, but as a last resort.CONCLUSION
While some people may think, "Well, if you are going to engage in a counter-cult ministry, then you should expect these kind of things to happen" -- and yes that is partly true, but what is unsettling is when faced with the overwhelming evidence and documentation against cultists and their leadership, some people outside the cult will continue to support the cult and its leadership and followers. This creates a cynical effect, that sure it may be better to just leave them alone but then again; look at Islamic terrorism -- the appeasement policy of just "leaving them alone" isn't working. The only time cults; be it political like the Nazis or the Japanese Shinto Imperialists or the religious such as the Jim Jones or the Islamic terrorists of the world...the only time cults have backed down is when people refuse to be bullied any longer. I refuse to be bullied.
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