More Commentary from Roderick the "Sycophant"

Roderick writes, "Their websites failed to attract anything but sycophants." That's funny because to date, Roderick is our most active visitor. ----- http://unpreterist.blogspot.com/2013/06/hypocrisy-continues.html#more Even in trying to redefine themselves the Talbotites cannot be humble for one moment.  Talbotite shill and weirdo stalker Jason Bradfield wrote:

"this [how smart Bradfield and his friends are] flies over the heads of most hyper-preterists because they were never systematically trained to begin with."

Huh????? But Sam Frost, Bradfield's mentor WAS supposedly "systematically trained" at the very same "seminary" where Bradfield is now trying to be "trained" YET, Frost STILL fell into "hyper-preterism".  Not only that, Frost used his "systematic training" to advocate hyperpreterism. These people have to be the MOST hypocritical people I have ever known.  They act like as they were coming out of hyperpreterism, they were so wise to see it was false. They IGNORE all the people who went before them (like Todd Dennis). They IGNORE all the people that were opposing them while they were busy advocating hyperpreterism. It's as if they are presenting themselves as successes when in reality they have been failures. They spent over a decade advocating a cult and heresy and even in that they couldn't make it work. Frost's attempt to start a hyperpreterist church failed. Their websites failed to attract anything but sycophants. They attempted to make hyperpreterism into a "systematic" movement as they were trained by Kenneth Talbot. But when that failed, they needed some other plan.  ENTER the remake. First, they had to claim to reject their former "sole purpose". They had to disclaim what they formerly "truly believed".  And even though both Frost and Bradfield spent years telling us how THEY DID use "systematic training" to arrive at hyperpreterism, suddenly they arrogantly claim no one but them uses "systematic training". So much good it did them? So, now we're going to be treated to a "new" website where Frost and Bradfield will continue their hypocrisies under a new banner.

From a Guy Who Has Not Read a Single Book of Gordon Clark

http://thekingdomcome.com/clarkian-light

A Clarkian Seeing The Light?

Oddly I am seeing reports where a rabid Clarkian is appearing to say that God's ways are above our own as it clearly says in Isaiah 55:8-9. Clarkians as you may know are followers of Gordon Clark. Clark was a philosopher who supposed that the Bible is always "logical" and can always be approached with sheer logic. Clark taught that there is no such thing as a paradox in the Bible even though paradox is only an apparentcontradiction but not an actual contradiction. Or, maybe it's Clark's followers that come off as claiming this and Clark himself never meant to imply this. However, there are paradoxes all over the Bible; such as the "first shall be last and the last shall be first". Miracles are apparent contradictions against the "logical" laws of nature.

I have found Clarkians to be perhaps the rudest "Christians" I have ever encountered; usually because they seem to "logically" give themselves a pass for their corruption. (By the way; Kenneth Talbot is a champ of Clarkianism -- which says a lot)

Anyhow, this Clarkian recently quoted Psalm 131:1-3 which is amazing because it speaks of humility and not trying to attain to "matters too great". Most Clarkians seem to think they are so much smarter than the average person. Talbot even thinks he can decide who should be killed if they don't "obey" him and his cronies (source).

Is this Clarkian finally seeing the light that he isn't such a big shot? I doubt it; because this guy is way too full of himself. But I pray the Lord does a work in him.

TKC Closing - Nobody Cares

http://thekingdomcome.com/tkcclosing

TKC Closing

After almost 12 years, I am closing this site when the account comes due for renewal in Oct 2013. Why? Well, because quite frankly I'm sick and tired of religionists. Don't get me wrong. I am "religious". I'm a devout Christian. But a religionist is someone who is so wrapped up in their "religion" that they abandon integrity and honesty. Jesus called such people hypocrites like the Pharisees who would devise all sorts of technicalities to get around Sabbath prohibitions yet condemn other people for infractions. These are religionists. They read Bible verses (or whatever "sacred" book(s) they may hold) as if they were sub-sectioned law books that require them to figure out all the loop holes they can apply to themselves.

I just want out. Removing myself from my most vocal theological presence should be the way to go about it. Perhaps I will be less a target for the religionists. This DOESN'T mean I'm going away...sorry to tell you, you stalker religionists. I will work in other ways to push back against religionists.

But until that time, I will continue to post here periodically.

Hating The Messenger For Hate's Sake

http://unpreterist.blogspot.com/2013/05/hating-messenger-for-hates-sake.html

There has been no doubt that over the last few years this site has focused on the "Talbotites" -- Kenneth Talbot followers. Some of these are high profile ex-Full Preterists like Sam Frost and Jason Bradfield. And over these years, the Talbotites have been vicious haters of me; Bradfield went so far as to call my house and try to talk to my wife about me and even creepishly stalked out my place of work and called my boss to try to get me fired. All of this and yet the Talbotites continue to have people think they are honorable people.

Well, I want to revisit history; especially in light of Bradfield's latest article. Oddly enough, even with all his hatred, I have respect for Bradfield; always have. Of the pair, Frost and Bradfield, I certainly give creds to Bradfield having a more honest heart. Anyhow. During the years when I left the Full Preterist movement and tried to explain HOW people got into it; and specifically mentioning how Bradfield got into it, Bradfield's hatred simmered. He just couldn't hear what Roderick Edwards was saying -- he hates me that much. His hatred gets in his way.

In Bradfield's latest article, called The Subtlety of Heresy he further explains how he fell into "hyperpreterism".  He says:

"....in 2003, my family and i packed our bags and moved to Florida to dedicate our lives to what i thought was the ‘new reformation.’ Seven. Years. Seven freakin’ years of wallowing in that garbage."

This is a reference of Bradfield contacting and then joining up with Full Preterist self-styled "pastor", Sam Frost. This is the same Frost that Kenneth  Talbot allowed to help develop student materials for his seminary while never confronting Frost publicly. Could you imagine if Talbot would have instead, aggressively opposed and denounced Frost's promotion of...well, how does Bradfield call it? "garbage".  Instead, Talbot knowingly allowed and even fostered Frost's many years of promoting heresy. Talbot has finally given Bradfield a role in his seminary and I wonder if a bit of it is due as repayment for helping to cause people like Bradfield to waste "seven freakin' years of walling in garbage". I mean, when good men see evil and do nothing, there are consequences right?

HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF

While I certainly think it is good news when a person breaks free of a cult or a heresy, it is not good news when they simply jump into another cult or heresy. Isn't there any red flags for Bradfield about joining with Talbot; the man who coddled the man who helped Bradfield fall into heresy in the first place??? What would have happened if Frost wasn't there for Bradfield to pack up and move to Florida over? Maybe Bradfield and his family wouldn't have spent "seven freakin' years" in that cult had he not also been coddled by Talbot's protégé -- Frost.

Read how Bradfield describes in another posting how he entered Full Preterism:

"For those of you who don’t know me, i embraced the full pret framework (all prophecy was fulfilled by ad70) in late 2002 and went on to aid Sam Frost as the techie guy behind Christ Covenant Church, which turned into RCM, as well as formed SGP, which is still one of the most active full pret social networks around...  Well, there are a number of factors. Looking back, I think alot of it has to do with how i entered into the view. I embraced “full preterism” out of frustration and impatience. At the time that i decided to go all in, i was a pastor-in-training at a reformed baptist church that taught postmillennialism from the pulpit." (source)

Notice his situation. He was being groomed for the pastorate. He wanted to be a power-broker. He admits he became frustrated and impatient. It wasn't happening fast enough for him.  Interestingly, Bradfield's history is repeating itself as he has jumped into Talbotism.  He is currently a...and I quote: "a deacon-in-training" at Talbot's church. (See link) He is also the "techie guy" behind Talbot's ministries.

What has changed? Bradfield simply left one heresy/cult where he wasn't able to succeed and jumped into another one....doing the same things he previously did. He is still chasing the power.

STOCKHOLM SYNDROME

Bradfield almost behaves like a person with Stockholm syndrome, where he begins to identify with his abusers. After all, Frost directly abused Bradfield by helping him stay captive "seven freakin years" to the cult/heresy of Full Preterism. And Talbot fostered and aided Frost's push by never publicly opposing his pupil. And now, here's Bradfield working side-by-side with his two main abusers. You'd think he'd consider that they were directly responsible for what happened to him...and his family.

Commenting on Bradfield's article, Frost said:

"I would take umbrage at this if it were not for the truth. I remember those nights talking to Jason to “come on down” to Florida. We were, at the time, convinced. I know I was."

See, exactly as I said in 2011:

"Note the progression here. Bradfield loses acceptance in his former circles. The network breaks down and leaves him and his family without proper supporting fellowship, especially in his time of need. Somehow Bradfield gets in contact with hyperpreterist leader Sam Frost...One of my MAIN COMPLAINTS against Dr. Kenneth Talbot is that for 10 years, Talbot allowed Frost to not only attend Talbot's Christian seminary, Talbot actually allowed Frost to assist in developing the seminary's student materials. For 10 years, Talbot in essence validated Frost's hyperpreterism. Where was Talbot while Frost continued to advocate this heresy over the last 10-15 years? Why do we not see anything publicly from Talbot discouraging Frost's promotion of heresy? Instead, we see Bradfield; as a dejected Christian who is led astray by Frost into the heresy, by Frost being there at the very crucial moment...Notice the HUGE FACTOR that precipitated Bradfield's into the heresy -- a WELCOMING, comforting, validating atmosphere. This is EXACTLY why I am soooooo adamant that Christians never appear to validate hyperpreterism or hyperpreterists. It only lengthens their stay within the heresy. Bradfield admits that without the "pressure" [to prove/test all things], he was able to put the important questions on the back burner [and adopt heresy]." - (source)

Now, Bradfield is but one man. How about all the other people that Frost/Talbot coddled and took advantage of to promote Full Preterism. And what about all the people they are currently coddling and taking advantage of to promote Talbotism? Why is Bradfield now helping his former abusers abuse more people -- al be it with another heresy/cult. How can Bradfield trust these men? They obviously didn't care about him the first time around. Frost even admits he was "convinced" his heresy/cult was right. How long will he follow a person taking him down dangerous paths..."convinced" they are right but actually terribly wrong.

I've been opposing Talbot for many years now and for many years his proxies viciously attack me for daring to question an "elder". No matter how many facts are brought out, they always attempt to explain them away or say it is out of context. It sounds like they are "convinced" again...again by the SAME MAN who failed them the first time around. Talbot didn't just fail Bradfield, but he failed Frost. What kind of "elder", "pastor", "seminary president" coddles a major leader of a heresy yet takes no responsibility in what that does to people's lives.  I know Talbot had almost single-handedly ruined my faith but he has never lifted a finger to help. He is an evil man who even now advocates "quick executions" of people who do not obey him if/when ever he is "in charge".  Really Jason? This is what you want to be part of? Go on hating me all you want, but please, please do not repeat your history with these frauds.

The UnPreterist: When Murderous Men Are In Charge

Dr. Kenneth Talbot of Whitefield Theological Seminary advocates that when he and his followers are in charge, they will KILL those people who don't obey him. -- http://thekingdomcome.com/murderous-men

And we wonder how Christians in pre-Hitler Germany didn't see that evil coming? When people; even more when supposed "Christians" will ignore or even worse support the horrific and appalling comments from men like Talbot, it is easy to see how Nazi Germany happened. Imagine if Talbot really was ever "in charge". He tells us outright that he plans to EXECUTE people who do not obey.  Obey what? His interpretation of the Bible?

Anyone who attempts to justify or downplay what Talbot has said here is party to his murderous intentions. To say we must have taken Talbot out of context is naive. Talbot is clear in context that when he and his followers are in charge, they will KILL people who do not obey him. He is clear that he considers people "blights on society" and "road bumps" that he and his followers "don't want to deal with in [Talbot's] kingdom".  And there is no excuse in trying to claim we should look at Talbot's whole body of work -- as if his kindness and "works" in other areas excuse his advocacy of KILLING people.

Anyone who continues to associate with Talbot merely legitimizes him and his plan to kill people.

via unpreterist.blogspot.com

While this post is about Dr Talbot, i include it in the archive because i am *indirectly* spoken of throughout the post.

The UnPreterist: What More Can Be Done?

When this blog was started in 2006, the intent was to help people get out of or avoid getting into "hyperpreterism" (Full Preterism). It was both a labor of love toward those people who were either in the "preterist movement" or knew someone in it; and it was a cathartic endeavor. But something I didn't realize at the beginning as much is that so-called "Partial-Preterism" is the "gateway drug" into Full Preterism. I less and less find fault with people who embrace Full Preterism because when you look at all the contradictory arguments from Partial-Preterists; it leads a person right into Full Preterism. I mean, when you have men like Kenneth Gentry, Gary DeMar, and their "papa"; Kenneth Talbot all saying that historic Christian eschatology has been so lacking or a "garbed mess" (DeMar's words); so much so that these men like Talbot create personalized eschatologies such as Talbot's Realized Preterism -- it is no wonder people desire to take up their own eschatology as well.

The doctrines of these men are so convoluted that I don't blame an honest person for abandoning anything these men say.  From Talbot's apparent Clarkian-induced Nestorianism, to Gentry's eventual 3rd coming of Christ these men are not the champions they are made out to be. Further, their "good ole boy" club where they are all connected either via being on each others' "boards" or having "churches" in each others self-made micro-denominations, or handing out "degrees" to each other from their self-made seminaries -- it is despicable. (look at all the connections, you'll see it too)

Add to this, their and their sycophantic followers' behavior. They even have one immature fellow who ironically enough is supposedly a "deacon-in-training" at one of their churches and who does lots of their websites. This fellow has tracked down my wife's name and called my house asking for her? Why? What kind of man complains to another man's wife over a theological dispute? Secondly, this same "deacon-in-training" tracked down where I work (a non-theological place) and called my boss, trying to get me fired.  What did this fellow's "elders" do when I asked them to look into it? Told me "they didn't want to get involved". Yeah, real honorable men there.

Well, I've done all I can do here folks. There are loads of articles on this site. I list many people BY NAME so there is no confusion as to who I am addressing. I've given you loads of source links so that you can verify what I say about these people.  Now it is up to you. You can either look the other way and keep endorsing men like the fellow who called my work (or his incestuous "pastors") or you can kick the dust off your feet and stick with the Christianity that Jesus and His hand-picked apostles taught and practiced. Because if you adopt that "Partial-Preterism" of these frauds with its claimed failure of historic Christianity; you might as well go all the way and accept Full Preterism. At least in Full Preterism you wouldn't be putting yourself under the direction of demonstrated frauds and liars such as these Partial-Preterists.  Rather, I would like to see you adopt historic Christianity; which is NOT a "garbled mess".

What more can be done?

via unpreterist.blogspot.com

What Is Talbotism? Another ISM In the Making | The Kingdom Come

What Is Talbotism? Another ISM In the Making

We must first ask what makes an "ism" within theology? For LuthernISM, CalvinISMⁱ, or ArminianISM. All of the men these "isms" were named after certainly would rather had their names not become an ISM. So, why did they? They didn't use those terms to describe their views; although these terms help us to quickly sum up a perspective or at least get the general idea.

However, the "isms" come along especially when an advocate begins to propose perspectives they often claim are "their" teaching or "their" view.

WHAT IS TALBOTISM?

Talbotism is still in the making but it is a perspective around the teachings and practices of a man named Kenneth Talbot. Talbot and some of his followers like to deride people for pointing out the rise of his own personal "ism" and his own "followers"; who have been called "Talbotites", "Talbotians", and "Talbotists". But the fact remains, Talbot is making his own personal "ism". This is especially evident in the fact that Talbot has created his own denomination, his own seminary, and his own church. This far exceeds what Martin Luther and John Calvin did in personalizing their perspectives; so if those men have had their names turned into "isms", certainly Talbot's name is more a candidate.

Further, Talbot creates entire personalized "ologies"; such as his own personalized eschatology he calls "Realized Preterism". (hear him say it in this 5 second audio clip). If that isn't enough to convince the reader that Talbot is either knowingly or unknowingly creating his own "ism", it should be said that Talbot also produced 89 hours worth of lectures on just his personalized eschatology. Let's put that in perspective. If you read aloud the entire Bible at a normal pace, it would take you approximately 72 hours to complete. However, Talbot has created 89 hours worth of droning monologue on merely one aspect of the Bible. If this isn't evidence of a man creating a personalized "ism" I don't know what is. Only the most devoted of Talbot followers would defend this kind of thing.

Next, if not already through the fact of creating his own denomination, his own seminary and own church, Talbot has declared he is somehow better than the average person when it comes to all things theological.

"I am good at what I do, both in preaching and in apologetics, and even better in debating." (Talbot bragging about himself)-- source

There is clear evidence that Talbot is concertedly advancing a personalized theology; ie. an "ism" of his own making. To respond to this evidence with claims I am trying to "smear" or "slander" Talbot, is simply being blind to the facts of the matter.

WHAT IS A TALBOTITE?

This idea of Talbot being cultish did not originate with me. The first mention I have found of Talbot as the leader of an "ism" as a cultic manifestation was noted by Dr. Thomas Roche, Teacher of Classical Languages at Aquidneck Island Christian Academy (see his impressive credentials here).

Dr. Roche said of Talbot and his behavior:

"This 'denomination' [Talbot's] is also more or less a cult, the personal plaything of moderator-for-life Kenneth Talbot. Avoid...I hold to the existence of two types of cult, following the typology of the late Dr Walter Martin and his successor, Dr Hank Hanegraaff, authors of 'Kingdom of the Cults' and successive heads of the cult research group, 'The Christian Research Institute', in Calif. One type of cult is the theological cult, and to qualify here a group has to claim to be Christian while teaching a false gospel. Clearly this is not the case with Talbot. However, they also recognize the so-called 'sociological cult', groups that have orthodox theology but are cultic in terms of strong-man, authoritarian and oppressive leadership, doctrinaire mind-control attitudes, and extreme in-group/ out-group mentalities that make it very hard to depart, keep members isolated from non- and especially ex- members, etc., and give various special privileges/ status/ rule exemptions to the leadership." (ref#1, ref#2)

In September of 2011 I contacted Dr. Roche to see if he was still of the opinion that Talbot was cultic. His response at the time, without revealing too much of his private email message was:

"KEEP THE FAITH AND DO NOT DEAL WITH THIS CULT"

So, a Talbotite is the person who tends to follow the teachings of Talbot, even to the point of actually listening to 89 hours of lectures (that would be like listening 8 hours a day for 11 days straight). A Talbotite is a person that is somehow beholden to Talbot, via Talbot being a chairman on the board of their "ministry" as Talbot is on several (American Vision.com, NiceneCouncil.com) or having been given free or discounted tuition at his seminary as Talbot offered me before I wised up and began opposing his personalized "ism". Or a Talbotite is a person who spends inordinate amounts of time promoting anything Talbot. For example, as evident from this avid Talbot follower during a promotion of 700 hours worth of audio by Talbot. Look at how it is being promoted:

EXAMPLE OF TALBOTISM'S EFFECTS

"Welcome to the GoodieBox. So what is it? Or better, what’s in it? Christ Presbyterian Church of Lakeland, FL has been sitting on a gold mine of solid, Reformed sermons which have been made available only to members of the church and visitors who happened to asked for a disc. Not anymore. The church [Talbot's church] has partnered with WhitefieldMedia [Talbot's seminary's arm] to make this collection of over 700 sermons available to our [Talbot's main supporter] visitors." -- source

Note first of all, how Talbot's teachings are called a "goodiebox" and a "gold mine". Granted, many deceased persons are so esteemed and a fair amount of living persons as well. But taken along with all the other evidence, this is telling. It is even admitted within this promotion, that the material was only previously available to "members" and people who asked for it. What was it that Dr. Roche said about an aspect of a cult is its "in-group vs out-group" mentality?

But the issue is more profound when you realize that the entire promotion is...cultic. Here we have Talbot partnering with Talbot to promote Talbot; since in fact Talbot's church and WhitefieldMedia, and the website are ALL part and parcel an arm of Talbot.

CONCLUSION
While I could go into some of Talbot's personalized theology, such as his admitted NEW eschatology he is calling "Realized Preterism", such an endeavor at this point would be met with claims of "personal attack" on Talbot, even though it is apparent that Talbot is indeed promoting himself as a purveyor of his own "ism". So, despite whatever protestations Talbot or his followers might offer against the idea that he and they are promoting an "ism" of Talbot, the evidence is clear.
I leave it to the reader to use discretion with any man who would go through these lengths to promote himself; under the banner of "Christian" or otherwise.

via thekingdomcome.com