Notice something missing from Sam's statements??? SOURCE LINKS, evidence of what he says. Sam is a good speaker no doubt, but Romans 16:17-18 tells us about these kinds of people; people who make it sound like they are having civil discussions with you because they "smooth talk" by reminding you how "way back" you and they might go. Well, how come how "way back" Sam and I go is then instead presented as "obsessing" instead of a positive? It is because I DO and WILL bring the source links to show that what Sam is saying is not true.EXAMPLE:
He claims two elders were called in to... what give more legitimacy to his ordination?? But he neglects to tell the readers that those same elders have since DEFROCKED him and when they defrocked him, Sam claimed they never had anything to do with his ordination in the first place. Which is it???? Which Sam do we believe. See the SOURCE LINK yourself and the exchange between Sam and the "elders" who defrocked him.
PLAYING THE VICTIM
Sam is trying to play the victim here, acting like he just happen to register a new account here at CARM, briefly after his P.R. man Jason Bradfield was banned for flagrant violations of the rules. And which thread does Sam just happen to comment on first? MINE. Who is "harassing" whom? He comments on my thread talking about "anti-prets" and he thinks there will be no interaction from me simply because he doesn't use my name? Really?
Further, no one said Sam was calling my house. See how he switched that on the reader? It was clearly Jason, and to that Sam doesn't really speak; instead he makes it look like Jason was being harassed. I never called Jason's house asking for his wife by name as Jason has mine. I never called Jason's boss as Jason has done mine. I never set up a fake email account using Jason's name as the sender as Jason has done mine. Who then in the REAL attackers??? I've said nothing "slamming" or attacking of Sam Frost. I never say things here that he "has no clue" -- that is attacking. I merely have stated VERIFIABLE FACTS, with source links.
COUNTER-CULT
Any counter-cult ministry is going to address the players in a cult. You don't address Mormonism and not talk about Joseph Smith jr, Orson Pratt, and others. So, of course Sam and his associates will be addressed when we discuss...let's call it the "Whitefieldian Cult" (at least here on CARM). The Whitefieldian Cult is throughly a "preterist cult" -- not in the sense that "full or hyper preterism" might be considered a cult, since it has no clear leadership, but in the sense that a central figure is at the heart of the Whitefieldian Cult and does admit to orchestrating much that goes on under his purview. This is no conspiracy, as the leader of the cult has said point blank:
Anyone part of the Whitefieldian Cult are part of his "plan", his "better strategy". There is a reason Jason Bradfield admins so much of the Whitefieldian websites."I am good at what I do, both in preaching and in apologetics, and even better in debating. But I am not so good that I will change them. You are trying to engage about 100 to 400 people. I have a better strategy, I am going to engage every Reformed and Evangelical Pastor in this country as to what Hyperpreterism is and what they need to understand. That part of my plan is almost over. What I do next? Let’s wait and see." -- source
CONCLUSION
Sam tries to make it sound like he should be considered a legitimate "pastor" because he did the work of a "pastor". Should ex-Mormon elders be considered legitimate Christian pastors after they leave that cult? Worse yet, would it be right for that ex-Mormon elder to apparently hide the FACT that he was only ever a Mormon elder and never a Christian pastor, as Sam does with his "hyper pret pastorate"?
Lastly, Jason is the one that referred to his burning his "hyper pret" books as akin to destroying books on "magic arts". It was Jason that referenced Acts 19:19-20.
The ummmm... inconsistencies/hypocrisies of Frost's statements can't bear the light of DOCUMENTED, VERIFIABLE FACTS.
More later -- I'm glad Frost is here, and if the mods permit, I will interact with Frost directly in front of witnesses so that the plain truth will be clear for all to see. I will not imply Frost "doesn't have a clue" -- as a matter of fact, I will credit to Frost, a Rom 16:17-18 cleverness in everything he does, including coming here, registering shortly after his right-hand man was banned, and then commenting on MY thread that is directly addressing the movement of which he is apart, and then slyly acting like he is being "slammed". That is as clever as any politician could be. Try to turn the tables indeed.P.S. After having these folks call the church I was attending, I'll never publicly reveal to these folks anything about my fellowship life; let alone the fact they call my family and work. Pitiful.
Tuesday, October 2, 2012
CARM: Why the anti-pret battle is lost
Tuesday, September 18, 2012
Cyber Stalker Alert!!!! Roderick Edwards « What Color is the Sky in Their World?
Roderick is stalking folks once again but this time he’s gone too far. As I stated on this podcast the only way to stop these types of individuals is to report them to their local authorities. This was done this morning.
Edwards has a lengthy history of such anti-social behavior and as recently as this week has stalked and spammed my friends at Reign of Christ and Michael Loomis. Prior to that he stalked and spammed Dee Dee Warren as well as many others.
If you’ve been stalked by Edwards or if you know of anyone who has been a victim of Edwards, please sign the comments section of this blog so the authorities can see how messed up this weirdo really is.
A Little Cheese With Your Whine?
The primary content of last night’s program was a cyber-stalker by the name of Roderick Edwards. This individual continually ignores requests by both Phil and me to simply leave us alone. We’ve both told him in very plain English to simply, “LEAVE US ALONE!!!”
We’ve even threatened legal action.
Yet he continues to ignore our requests. He even contacts people we associate with to warn them about us. Really? Yes. This individual should be ignored at all costs. But by all means…If he refuses to leave you alone…Expose him.
Here is some of his most recent “PUBLIC” information.
Monday, September 17, 2012
Pitfalls of a Counter-Cult Ministry | The Kingdom Come
The UnPreterist: Pitfalls of a Counter-Cult Ministry
First, what is a counter-cult ministry? A counter-cult ministry is an effort by one or more people to expose and address a cultic group. A cultic group is defined not merely by something extreme such as an individual leader controlling followers but by any abnormal devotion to one or more leaders that often results in the followers behaving unethically or even illegally in support of the leader(s). And the leader(s) need not even ask the followers to behave in this way, however the leader(s) often will turn a blind eye to the actions of their followers.DEFINING A CULT
As stated, a cult is not merely an individual leader controlling followers. A cult need not even be religious in nature, although that is perhaps the easiest vehicle to use to get followers to be that devoted. Also, just because followers are very devoted to leadership doesn't make it a cult. Obviously, religions in general call for the express devotion of its adherents, if not to its founders and leaders at least to its principles and teachings. The kind of cult we're talking about is the kind of group that causes its followers to manifest unethical and often illegal behavior in support of the leadership. It is an almost, "protect the leadership at all costs" mentality. Often, no matter how much documentation and evidence is brought to bear that the leadership is corrupt, the followers will still remain devoted and sometimes even become more entrenched. We see this with some political parties, unions, and even yes religious leaders.
BULLY TACTICS
Cultists of this sort will often engage in bully tactics to silence critics. They will threaten their critics or use social conformance to try to shut them up. If that fails they will then begin justifying their unethical behavior, claiming the critic deserves it. They may even become so deluded in their devotion to the cultic leaders, that they project onto the critics, things they as the cultist are ACTUALLY doing.
EXAMPLE
I recently experienced this with a fellow so devoted to his cult leaders that he called my house, somehow used my wife's name on the recorder though her name should not be known to this fellow and is not said anywhere on the recorder. Further, this fellow followed me onto of all places, Christian chat forums simply to try to bully me into silence and he broke the rules of the forum so terribly that he was banned. He even said he hoped he'd be banned. As a side-effect of being in a cult, this fellow thought he was above respecting the community where he was interacting. But it gets worse. This fellow someone how obtained my place of work and called there attempting to get me fired. He has posted my city and state location on the Internet, in hopes that someone does violence to me and my family. He has made a fake email account using my name as the sender name. He has stolen images from my supposedly private Facebook page (yes, I know, nothing is really private on the Internet). My point is, this is the kind of psychotic, stalker behavior of a cultist.
A couple of things here --
- I know this fellow. I have opposed him and his cult leaders by name.
- I don't want to report this fellow to the police/FBI because I try to follow 1 Cor 6:5-7.
My point is, though this fellow is causing me some hardship, I as a Christian want to think the better of him. I want to hope that he will someday see what he is doing is cultic. Call it naive if you want, but this is how I have operated when cultists in the past have attacked me. Have I had to report some of them to authorities? Yes, but as a last resort.CONCLUSION
While some people may think, "Well, if you are going to engage in a counter-cult ministry, then you should expect these kind of things to happen" -- and yes that is partly true, but what is unsettling is when faced with the overwhelming evidence and documentation against cultists and their leadership, some people outside the cult will continue to support the cult and its leadership and followers. This creates a cynical effect, that sure it may be better to just leave them alone but then again; look at Islamic terrorism -- the appeasement policy of just "leaving them alone" isn't working. The only time cults; be it political like the Nazis or the Japanese Shinto Imperialists or the religious such as the Jim Jones or the Islamic terrorists of the world...the only time cults have backed down is when people refuse to be bullied any longer. I refuse to be bullied.
Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)
Saturday, September 15, 2012
CARM: A book I'd like to see Sam Frost write
With pretended ex-Full Preterist, Sam Frost writing self-serving books with titles like "Why I Left Full Preterism", I think it is important to note that Frost admits in a podcast that he was "banned" from watching the Preston-McDurmon debate online because he illegally accessed the live-stream channel without paying the $80.00 requested by the hosts of the debate.Preston supposedly took Jason Bradfield to task on Facebook for the same thing (Bradfield accessing the live-stream without paying). Bradfield is Frost P.R. manager.
If you'd like to read and listen to the entire account, go here.
CARM: Why the anti-pret battle is lost
Well, let's try this again. The first time I attempted to post on this topic, a vicious and slanderous anti-pret came out of the woodwork and posted such lies that the moderator closed the thread. So here is a do over. This post is a significant contribution since it relates some of the otherwise untold history surrounding Preterism. Please moderator, attempt to keep vicious, hateful people from spoiling it.
As always, I will provide links to back up what I am presenting. Any "bickering" comes from people who DON'T present verifiable references as I do here, but that they only come here to make such a loud noise that they hope you moderators will just shut the whole thing down so no one will see it. Don't let them ruin the FACTS.The so-called "anti-preterist" movement, or perhaps more accurately; the "anti-hyperpreterist" movement has been chiefly led by a woman going by the pseudonym, "Dee Dee Warren". Warren claims her impetus for starting the movement was her run in with hyperpreterist Don Preston (ref). But any sustained reading of Warren's material shows that she is self-consumed and thus a poor apologist against hyperpreterism. What is worse, is that in the last few years, Warren has demonstratively compromised with those who serendipitously (or perhaps purposely) promote hyperpreterism while they claim to be opposing it. For example, a self-made seminary president has become the driving factor within the anti-pret movement. This seminary president (whom I'm forbidden by CARM to name by name) has actually said:
First, Chilton converted to "Full/Hyperpreterism" and remained there even unto his death. Secondly, what in the world is "Realized Preterism" if it is not -- as this seminary president said -- "akin to" Chilton's form of preterism, which was without a doubt Full/Hyperpreterism. Yet this seminary president directly drives the focus of the anti-pret movement. He said so himself with this statement:"Some aspects of his [David Chilton's] views that would be probably more akin to what I'm actually teaching as well in Realized Preterism" (15 second audio)
Anyone working with this seminary president is thus part of "his plan"."I am good at what I do, both in preaching and in apologetics, and even better in debating. But I am not so good that I will change them [hyperprets]. You are trying to engage about 100 to 400 people. I have a better strategy, I am going to engage every Reformed and Evangelical Pastor in this country as to what Hyperpreterism is and what they need to understand. That part of my plan is almost over. What I do next? Let’s wait and see." (ref)
Next, Warren has teamed up with Samuel Frost and Jason Bradfield. These men are hyperpreterists claimed recanted in late 2010. However, Frost has since said:
What things has Frost "not left" of Full/Hyperpreterism besides his millennial views? Who says his opposition to Full/Hyperpreterism isn't merely an opposition to its current leadership. It seems more that Frost simply wants to be the one to shape Full/Hyperpreterism and since he couldn't do so from within, he is now trying (along with his mentor and seminary president), to develop an "akin" form of Full/Hyperpreterism that they can control and shape."My eschatology has been modified by my study in FP, to be sure. There are some good insights here and there that I have not left (like my millennial position)" (ref)
Lastly, Gary DeMar of Americanvision.org has long been associated by those within and against Full/Hyperpreterism as being the person who single-handedly created more Full/Hyperpreterists than anyone else (ref). Yet now DeMar has teamed up with Frost to supposedly combat Full/Hyperpreterism.
Remember, DeMar actually point blank told Frost that he didn't think Full/Hyperpreterism was a heresy. (listen to audio of him actually saying it) Further, DeMar posted on Facebook this following statement in regards to Full/Hyperpreterism:
If DeMar actually believes eschatology has been a "garbled mess" then sure, why shouldn't we consider Full/Hyperpreterism might be right. Of course, MOST Christians DON'T agree with DeMar's assessment. Most Christians believe that the Church has consistently held to a basic and united eschatology (which is nothing like Full/Hyperpreterism) since before and the day after AD70 until now. DeMar is once again feeding the Full/Hyperpret premise."... I'm willing to listen to what others say on an issue, especially on eschatology since it's been a garbled mess for centuries. It's conceivable that so-called eschatological heretics are seeing something I'm not seeing. They're willing to take the risk. Many are not." (ref)
This is why the so-called "anti-pret" movement is lost. It is so compromised and full of people who actually promote Full/Hyperpreterism, that to think the anti-pret movement is helping to dismantle Full/Hyperpreterism is laughable. I'd urge anyone who is against Full/Hyperpreterism to avoid any of the folks associated with the so-called anti-pret movement. It is like helping Obama and thinking by doing so you are helping to push back against Islam.
No comments:
Post a Comment